What Christians can do when a Mormon Stops by Their House
I just got finished with my first encounter with missionaries from the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints, known more readily as Mormons. In the past I would just wait until they went away. However, I am supposed to share my faith with everyone, right? It’s easy for me to share my faith with those who are spiritually hungry, and in an obvious situation of need. However, I’ve had trouble sharing my faith with the spiritually-sated – those who either don’t believe they need God, or who believe in a different one (Muslims, Hindus, Mormons, etc.). Perhaps it was for this reason that I felt God wanting us to invite them in.
The discussion was not quite what I planned. They focused on the commonalties between theirs and Christian faiths of the “Protestant background.” Everything we asked them about that our literary sources said about their beliefs (including Mormon texts), they denied. I flat asked them if there was anything new or different in the Book of Mormon that is not in the Bible. They said that it was all the same, but an expansion upon it. From the first encounter, they made it appear that our two belief systems were the same…
But, there were a couple major concerns I had.
- There was an extremely obvious condescending tone from them when we would ask a question. They would even openly snicker at some questions of ours. I didn’t realize it until later but one had thrown an insult my way about the church I attend and I didn’t even realize it. My wife and mother-and-law thought I was being a “bigger person”. Nah, I just wasn’t quick enough on the uptake
Guess that Jesus-guy would want me to forgive them, though – huh? I sure hope they wouldn’t be that rude if they knew the person wasn’t a Christian. Perhaps they were acutely aware of our high degree of skepticism, and figured they could get away with a little more. - They believe that all Christian pastors are apostates and grabbed the power for themselves rather than the correct way. After we whittled through their various old Testament references, we found that their statement hinged on their church’s belief that all priests (pastors, whatever) need to be chosen by a prophet, and nowadays those priests must be traced back to the prophet Joseph Smith since he was personally visited by God and Christ and given the “keys” to the resurgence of the Aaronic priesthood. That is a very bold and risky statement which lost them huge amounts of credibility with us – every pastor, priest outside of the Mormon church is a fraud?
- Just for fun I asked them about the secret handshake you need to get into the more secret Mormon rituals (unlike the Christian church where it is all open to the public). They acted like we were crazy as they snickered and said “No… there’s no handshake.” I come to find out later that they were telling the truth – there is no handshake… any more, because they now use ID cards. So, these guys weren’t lying so far as you could prove in a court of law. In my book though, deception through omission is just as bad. Having to use deceptive tactics to share one’s faith casts even more doubt.
- They believed that the Bible is incomplete due to political reasons and influence of sin – “that the Bible is the word of God, in so far as it is correctly translated” What does that mean? If you only believe part, then which part? They said the book of Mormon serves to confirm the Bible as true, using the example of a ray vs. a line. What is the difference? With a line you need two points. The problem is that they don’t believe one of those “dots” to be completely true. My faith rests on that the Bible is true – 100%. If I don’t, then I am basing that on my own beliefs. That would be idolatry as the Bible says… unless I don’t believe in that part either.
- If our belief systems were so similar, why did they need an additional 550ish page book? They say it’s because the Bible falls short of the truth… and a story from a guy with serious legal issues in the 1830’s (including suspending rights of freedom of press by ordering a contradictory town newspaper press to be destroyed) had the remainder of it.
- (And this was the biggest one for me) If our belief systems were so darn similar, then why are they trying to convert us? I go to a non-denominational, very conservative church (with a relaxed dress code that makes people think we’re very liberal – how’s that for silly stereotyping). If I knew someone that didn’t go to church or was not showing the fruits of a personal relationship with Christ, then I would invite them to mine. BUT, if I knew someone that was on fire for Christ, why would I go witness to them… unless I didn’t actually believe that they were followers of Christ?
I won’t go into the other details since the meeting went longer than any party really wanted it to, but I did get some takeaways from this for what Christians can do when a Mormon missionary shows up at the door.
- Answer the door – every encounter is a chance to witness, even if it is done silently by them seeing Christ in how we act and speak.
- Get ready before speaking with them – If you are very new or weak in your faith, ask them to come back and counsel other believers who you trust. They’ll come back whenever you ask – trust me. These guys came by 3 or 4 times to speak with us before we could finally set an actual date. Why do you need to talk with other trusted Christians first? The missionaries used all kinds of circular references and dodged all kinds of sincere questions from us. It was very, very sneaky, though. It reminded me of when I had a boss want to coach me on all kinds of ways to say no to our clients without using the word, “no.” If you don’t know what you believe, it could be easy for them to insert some doubt in your mind about the truth of the Bible. There was another case where that happened in history which was very significant.
- Know your Bible – I wanted to keep this based on personal experience rather than being a debate of scripture, but even in those discussions we got “smoked” on the Bible. These guys took some huge liberties with very short and crisp verses in the Word, but they knew it (right or wrong). I’m constantly running into people in need spiritually. Often the best I can do is telling them, “Well in the Bible it says that (Insert scripture about how God loves them, has a plan for them, desires to know them, etc.) But I couldn’t point it out if they said, “Okay, then where.” I also need to be ready if I believe someone has taken something in the Bible waaaay out of context and is hurting themselves or others in the process. Situations like that have come up before and I knew what they were saying was wrong, but I wasn’t ready to show them where. I’m not saying we should debate people with scripture, but let’s face it. The Mormons kick our tails in marketing (their commercials are everywhere and portray a loving image of Christ far better than we do), and they know their Bible far better than the average Christian. Save your letters – when I say average, I’m talking to the other 79% of America’s population out the 80% that say they are Christians – not you
- Keep it civil – remember that God doesn’t need us to defend him. We can certainly question them, because everyone needs to know why they believe what they believe. However, don’t lose your witness by letting the discussion get out of hand.
I hope this goes beyond just a personal lesson in witnessing, as I have trouble seeing how today’s encounter will impact those two young men to know Christ more fully. I also hope that this encourages you to share or discuss your faith with others. I’m just a regular guy who made a decision for Christ a bit less than 3 years ago. I’ve read or heard most of the Bible and have great recall, but I don’t know it chapter-and-verse by any stretch.
Fortunately it’s God’s plan and not mine. God has it all figured out whether we understand or not. We just need to obey. Please pray for those two young men, and for Mormon missionaries everywhere that if there is a difference in our beliefs that may jeopardize their eternal security in Christ that it be revealed and that they come to know the truth.
Even Jesus had serious legal problems. They killed him too.
Hi William,
I edited that part from “serious legal issues” to stating what just the last one was that got him put in jail. Several ex-Mormons wrote a town paper that placed Joseph Smith in a very unfortunate light. Joseph Smith effectively called for martial law in that town, and ordered that the printing press be destroyed. When non-Mormon residents found out about it, they alerted the state officals who had him promptly arrested.
Jesus never restricted what others said about him. When people came to arrest Jesus, he not only didn’t fight back, but stopped his followers who tried to stop the arrest. Joseph Smith fired 3 shots from a pistol smuggled into the jail, killing 2 people. If you go on a tour of the jail, even the Mormon tour guides will tell you this… but only if you ask them to confirm those facts.
Hopefully that ends the Joseph Smith vs. Jesus comparisons.
Awesome post!
I know what you mean about “know your bible.”
Personally, I’m absolutely sold out/on fire for the Lord. I have an incredible amount of passion inside of me that eliminates any question of “is God real?” I love how I experience God…how I know when I’m walking in his will. There are times that I truly feel like I am in the presence of a mighty and holy God.
However, none of that is good enough when it comes to non-believers and people of other faiths. They don’t care about those “emotional highs.” They’re not interested in the feelings of our faith. And, to agree with you, quite often they annihilate us with their knowledge of the text of OUR faith. Doesn’t make for too strong of an argument on our side…
Anyhow, I like your blog. I’ll be stopping by frequently. Brian Lewis pointed me here. Later, man!! Keep on rockin.
b
As a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints, I often wonder why my fellow Christians have such a hard time accepting us. It’s like we’re outcasts among our own people. I’ve never heard of a Baptist who tried to find fault in the Methodist doctrines, or Lutheran doctrines. Many people think that they are all the same, but I know that they are not. I have many friends who are very devout members of their different denomination (and very knowledgeable as well) they will be the first to tell you that the doctrines are different. I’ve heard that although they have different beliefs, they are all united in Christ. I agree, but wonder why Mormons aren’t accepted as having different beliefs, but being united in Christ. Many people who don’t know otherwise try diligently to spread lies and deception about the LDS Church, which confuses me. Why bother if we’re just a bunch of crazies?! No one seems to single out and attack other denominations. There are many “Anti-Mormon” books and websites, but I’ve never heard of a website professing to know “The Truth about Baptists” or “What the Methodists DON’T tell you…” Where’s the love? The Jesus I read about everyday in my King James Version of the Bible (the only version I read from) was about love and acceptance, with no exceptions…Where has that beautiful message been lost?
Hey Kip –
Maybe you’ve met some different Christians but I have no issue “accepting” Mormons. I have never had an adversarial personal relationship with any I’ve known. I just don’t agree. Apparently this is mutual because I have members of your church coming to save me from Hell.
Btw, I think if you look at some of the rules put on your LDS missionaries as far regarding their association with non-members of the church and requiring ID card access to get into particular ceremonies, the LDS church is actually keeping others away. Did you read my post about my experiences? Is what you read the mark of LDS expressing acceptance and love?
Anyway, the beliefs of your church vs that of protestant-based Christianity are very different. We’re not talking about minor doctrinal points. We are talking about fundamental issues such as who is saved and who is not. Also, who was Jesus Christ? When I got down to brass tacks with the missionaries that came to save me, it was very hard to get them to discuss these issues but when they did, it was very clear. I think the LDS deliberately blurs this line intentionally, because the missionaries I have encountered over the years use outright deception to avoid topics. I can’t think of a question that a person could ask me about my faith where I would need to deceive them. Christ doesn’t need us to deceive in order to reveal the truth later.
Let’s talk about this “acceptance” theme you keep using in your comment (which is appreciated and accepted, though I obviously disagree). “Accepting” is not “agreement”. It’s funny though that your use of the world only seems to apply when you’re talking about people accepting (agreeing) with LDS – it doesn’t go the other way. If I’ve somehow mistaken that, come on out to Charleston to my church and hang out. You can even come to the most sacred of ceremonies and we can do a bible study together. Any takers? Any missionaries want to eat at my house? Can I come do the same at the LDS church? Would they accept my beliefs or call me an apostate behind my back (or in front)? If you accept/agree with me, then why do I have missionaries wanting to convert me to another flavor of the same belief? That’s because they are not the same belief.
Guess you haven’t met enough Baptists (lol) or any Christians for that matter. We pick at each other all the time (seriously – it’s constant and it sucks). Minus a few crazies though, we’re not out there trying to convert each other and save one another from damnation. LDS is out there doing that. Otherwise when they hear that I’m a Christian they would say, “Awesome”!
We do accept that you have different beliefs, which is exactly why we disagree. Because we’re not united in Christ if you honestly compare what our two religions believe about Christ – we’re talking the very basis of his life and death, not something like where he was born or his shoe size.
Why also did your missionaries tell me every “Christian pastor” is an “apostate”? If you guys really are “Christians” like us and so interested in unity, then why did
The missionaries I talked to said that pretty much anything I read on the web is untrue. They literally said, “And you believe everything you read on the Internet?” I then showed them that these were quotes from their own books. I think they really believed that bit about the Internet being 100% full of lies and can only assume they are told that to keep them off random areas of the web. Since you had no idea Christians are regularly slammed on the web, I’m guessing you don’t hit much of the web, either – at least “Christian sites”.
I believe God’s blessing of the Internet has had caused the most fundamental leap in truth being revealed since the printing press. It has. Of course one needs verification, but the Internet provides that too with open forums for dialogue and the ability to challenge pieces on your own site. That is why you have so many former LDS members writing their stories about the church. Nearly all have to do with deception, denial, and controlling issues being at the crux of why they left. They aren’t fabulously ornate, dramatic, or even juicy stories. Their articles don’t come off as bitter and act like they just felt the LDS is different than advertised and got even stranger as they went on. I don’t see any rebuttal of former LDS member’s points on sites that allow open dialogue. The counter-arguments are about unrelated topics and resort to name-calling or calling them liars. Every former LDS member with a gripe on those sites are liars?
You need to look around the internet more. I work on the web for a living and it is filled with anti-Christ bias and hatred. Also, remember that my post didn’t come from some weird vendetta. I had these guys stop by my house, ask to come in, and then slam my faith, my actual physical church I’m a member of, and then snicker in my face when I said things they didn’t agree with. Who was singling out and attacking?
That is because Baptists and Methodists don’t have closed doors as to what happens in their church functions. There are key components of your faith deliberately kept hidden and lied about via omission of truth.
Again, Christians should love LDS members and I think most do. I love the guys who came by to see me but I don’t agree with them and believe they are leading people down a dangerous road where their works and ritual will lead to their salvation. That exists in parts of what I deem to be Christianity and is equally as dangerous here. It has led to millions of people wasting their lives trying to do it on their own and never understanding the mercy, grace, and power from Christ’s death on the cross. Trying to “be good people” when understanding the grace of the cross leads to what the LDS tries to manufacture. The very nature of mankind prevents this.
Every other major world religion believes in a connection with God from works in some form as well besides protestant-base Christianity. Of course works are evidence of a changed heart but that is like pull marketing vs push marketing.
From my personal experiences, LDS missionaries use great buzzwords such as “peace”, “love”, and “acceptance” but then follow it up with self-righteousness and outright deception. I believe their associating themselves with “Christianity” given your churches vastly different beliefs on who Christ is and what his life and death accomplished is exactly why Christians disassociate their beliefs from yours. I don’t see the LDS church interested in unity unless that means everyone will agree with them unquestioningly.
Okay this was news to me but I just heard about Mormon blood oaths which were finally removed in 1990… yeah. That’s Nineteen-ninety.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood_oath_(Latter_Day_Saints)
From what I recall about Jesus was that there was no secrecy. Quite the opposite, really.
Check around on Youtube for some former Mormons talking about it. What is even scarier was the commentary following these where people still in the Mormon church said, “yeah, so what.”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zy0d1HbItOo
is another interesting video in which Mormons say the facts are taken out of context or portrayed in an unflattering light, but don’t refute any of it. The guys that came by my house didn’t talk about any of this. They probably only break this stuff out once you are in pretty deep.
Now, if you want to tell me this is Christianity I will most certainly disagree with you. Call it a lack of acceptance if you want but I do not want to be associated with any of it.
Hey Matt, God bless you brother! Thanks for your response. Honestly, I felt like it was pretty condescending, but I appreciate your honesty. I’m sincerely sorry that those missionaries offended you. I’m not sure whether or not you know any other Latter-Day Saints, but most of the ones I know are good people. Not that it’s any excuse, but you have to remember that even though they are trying to be like Jesus, he’s the only perfect one, so those 20-year old missionaries can’t really match-up
Within the church we don’t at all teach or condone an attitude of superiority to others, but humility (like the Savior was). All I ask, all any Latter-Day Saint would ask is to truly seek within your soul to see if this is of God. It’s unfortunate that so many people have been so tainted by half-truths, things taken out of context, and flat out lies, that they never give it a chance. I am very familiar with the internet, and know what is out there, and quite frankly “You can’t believe everything you read on the internet.” You agreed with that statement when you said, “I work on the web for a living and it is filled with anti-Christ bias and hatred.” When I read things online that are “anti-Christ and bias,” I certainly don’t believe those things! One other significant difference to note is that of things being “secret” and things being “sacred.” Nothing in the LDS church is “secret,” but there are somethings that are “sacred.” Sacred things are not to be thrown about carelessly, and certainly not without first understanding what one is talking about. It’s like a dagger to the heart when someone mocks things that are sacred to me, when they clearly are going off of something someone else said and not at all off of personal experience. Just to set the record straight, these are the core doctrines and teachings of the LDS church- known as our Articles of Faith:
1 We believe in God, the Eternal Father, and in His Son, Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Ghost.
2 We believe that men will be punished for their own sins, and not for Adam’s transgression.
3 We believe that through the Atonement of Christ, all mankind may be saved, by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel.
4 We believe that the first principles and ordinances of the Gospel are: first, Faith in the Lord Jesus Christ; second, Repentance; third, Baptism by immersion for the remission of sins; fourth, Laying on of hands for the gift of the Holy Ghost.
5 We believe that a man must be called of God, by prophecy, and by the laying on of hands by those who are in authority, to preach the Gospel and administer in the ordinances thereof.
6 We believe in the same organization that existed in the Primitive Church, namely, apostles, prophets, pastors, teachers, evangelists, and so forth.
7 We believe in the gift of tongues, prophecy, revelation, visions, healing, interpretation of tongues, and so forth.
8 We believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly; we also believe the Book of Mormon to be the word of God.
9 We believe all that God has revealed, all that He does now reveal, and we believe that He will yet reveal many great and important things pertaining to the Kingdom of God.
10 We believe in the literal gathering of Israel and in the restoration of the Ten Tribes; that Zion (the New Jerusalem) will be built upon the American continent; that Christ will reign personally upon the earth; and, that the earth will be renewed and receive its paradisiacal glory.
11 We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may.
12 We believe in being subject to kings, presidents, rulers, and magistrates, in obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law.
13 We believe in being honest, true, chaste, benevolent, virtuous, and in doing good to all men; indeed, we may say that we follow the admonition of Paul—We believe all things, we hope all things, we have endured many things, and hope to be able to endure all things. If there is anything virtuous, lovely, or of good report or praiseworthy, we seek after these things.
That’s the “Truth about the Mormons”
The very Spirit of God has testified to my soul that these things are true. My testimony of this is independent of any other person- I have learned it for myself through much study and prayer. I invite any and all to “try the Spirit by the Spirit”- to pray and humbly and sincerely ask God to know if these things are true. I know that if one truly does “hunger and thirst after righteousness,” if one truly wishes to draw closer to our Heavenly Father and His Beloved Son Jesus Christ, this is a sure way of accomplishing this. I simply desire the wish of Gamaliel (from the New Testament), when he said, “Refrain from these men, and let them alone: for if this counsel or this work be of men, it will come to nought: But if it be of God, ye cannot overthrow it; lest haply ye be found even to fight against God.” If this church is the work of men, it will surely come to naught, but if it be of God, then it will roll forward. I believe with all my soul that it is in deed of God. Thanks Matt, again, God Bless!
Hi Kip,
My concern is for those who are lost who are going to become duped by a religion that is so secretive and one that is steering them down a path of self-righteousness rather than one of the righteousness of Chrsit.
Your reprinting of the statements of faith are not entirely what your church sells down the road. There are thousands of ex-LDS members that tell an additional story and one that is not like your statements of faith or anything Jesus Christ preached… of course that is so far as it is correctly translated.
I think that’s unfortunate that you quote the New Testament regarding gamaliel in this situation, because your missionaries were directly countering this. They knew I was a Christian and one that volunteers in ministry to addicted individuals. They felt it necessary to ignore that quote to further their command from your church.
Hi.
After Jesus went back to heaven, the first church was born in Antioch.
Then the first missionaries went to Italy, Cyprus Greece etc.
Paul kept an eye on all the churches by writing letters to them if they didn’t get it quite right.
Things were fairly standard for a while up to around 50AD, then with the passing of time we got into 100, 150, 200AD etc, things began to gradually change, generations of people lived and died.
Here we are in the Year 2008 with a much bigger population and after suffering many wars, over time churches became different, yet still believing in God and Jesus.
Politics slipped in the equation and the whole belief system became increasingly chaotic with Satan increasingly controlling the world.
Satan is reaching his peak now, but it is weakening slowly.
The signs of Jesus’s second coming are slowly dawning on this lost world and everyone is in for a very bad time.
It’s like weathering a massive storm, however it’s not the end.
Once the storm has passed the clouds will part and the love of jesus will shine through the clouds for 1000 years, before another great unknown storm, then Gods kingdom will come and the light of his kingdom will shine forever and sin will be lost.
Dear Matt,
Regarding your comment earlier about blood oaths:
This information is false. The blood oath was promoted by the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day-Saints. I would encourage you to only visit legitimate sites of the Mormon faith (i.e. those created by the Mormon faith) to do research on what we truly believe.
As for the missionaries you had encountered, I am sorry to hear that they laughed at you, and humbly ask you to not allow them to mar your view of Mormons as a people. Those were simply two nineteen / twenty year olds who do not reflect Mormon missionaries as a whole. My own brother is currently serving a mission, and would never respond to questions of those not of our faith in such a manner. There are no stupid questions.
Being a Mormon, I ask that other topics on your site, such as the one stating that Mormons believe God is an alien, be thoroughly researched before being posted. I know you have done a lot of research on the Mormon faith, but please do not state your own radical conclusions such as this on a “.org” site. Such information is misleading. While some facts about our belief system may have lead you to conclude we believe God is an alien, that conclusion in itself is not fact. I know that this is not a Mormon site and I, personally, have no control over what is posted, but people tend to take “.org” sites seriously – ergo, what is posted should be accurately represented and supportable by non-refutable sources.
Also, for future reference, when reading our own documents, such as the Book of Mormon, please be sure you are reading a book titled “The Book of Mormon” and not “Book of Mormon.” The latter is of a spin-off group of our faith.
If you have any further questions, I would be happy to answer. But please know that some things we believe are very sacred to us, and cannot be spoken of lightly. I am truly sorry if, upon asking questions about our “secret rituals,” you were answered in such a way that would lead you to believe one was avoiding the question or lying by omission. I myself have been caught in this situation, and it is hard to answer these questions. When answering these questions, it is difficult to give an outsider to our faith a clear understanding of these practices, and it is hard not to seem like we are avoiding the question when put on the spot like this. Most of us really do wish to answer the question, but we (or at least I) do not someone to see these practices in such a way as to mock them simply because they do not understand. They are sacred to us because what we believe allows us to appreciate them. One who is not a member of our faith, and does not wish to be, cannot appreciate them for what they truly are, and when taken out of context, they seem silly. Take for example, communion, a practice of many Christian faiths. (Note: Mormons have a similar practice, known as the “sacrament,” but without the same connotations as other Christian faiths.) During communion, it is believed that one is literally drinking the blood and eating the body of Christ. This is a serious subject. However, when taken out of context, this may, on the surface, seem silly or untrue. That is only because one who does not truly believe in transubstantiation cannot comprehend the deeper meaning or see it as sacred, thereby giving one a flawed view of the ritual.
One last thing: a Christian is defined as one who worships Christ as their Savior. We are Christians, and take misconceptions about this very seriously.
Knowing this, please feel free to ask me any questions.